Exclusive interview with ai16z founder Shaw: How Eliza framework, DAO innovation and AI will reshape the future of Web3

Author: Asher, Odaily Planet Daily

Yesterday (December 23), as the founder of the Eliza framework and the founder of ai16z DAO, Shaw was interviewed by Odaily Planet Daily at the Shanghai fan meeting event, sharing the current situation of ai16z, degenai, the in-depth cooperation project ELIZA and the AI ​​in 2025 The impact of sectors on Web3.

The following is the transcript of the interview

Odaily Planet Daily: You have been very popular in the Web3 field during this period, which may have brought a lot of pressure. Can you share a little bit about your personal journey and why you 're choosing to move from being an anonymous developer into the spotlight later this year?

Shaw :

I had no intention of stepping into the spotlight, and I had no idea that this would happen. This feels very strange because I was just a programmer before and no one knew who I was. I was even anonymous at the time, but I gradually felt a little disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and express myself authentically online. Then I released the Eliza framework, which became an unexpected hit and completely changed my life. I didn't expect any of this to happen. In fact, I didn't even realize that there was a so-called "spotlight" in the field of developers.

There is indeed pressure from the outside world. I used to like to promote some other projects simply because I personally thought those projects were great and I wanted to share something I believed in. However, when the DAO started to get very big, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure and no longer felt free to talk about the projects I liked.

Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most watched projects on GitHub. What is so special about it?

Shaw :

I think there are three main reasons. First, it works right out of the box. There are a lot of tools out there for AI agents and large language models (LLMs), and while they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. And the Eliza framework we built can be run directly as long as you start it. It contains everything you may need. At the same time, it also provides many plug-ins, such as Solana plug-in and EVM plug-in, which have been integrated.

Second, the core of AI agents revolves around networks. I've noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I think agents are more important in connecting all these models to people through the Internet. So we built it in TypeScript, and Web3 is particularly suitable for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, which makes it accessible to many developers.

Third, focus on the social loop. We focused on building connectors with social platforms such as X, Discord, Telegram, etc., so developers can run our tools immediately and have their bots go online to X without coding. Then they can add their own features on top of this, such as integrating the EVM chain and you can add a wallet to your agent with almost no code changes. Alternatively, if you have your own software and APIs, you can call them through a proxy. Starting on social media is key, and an agency on social media can promote itself and let more people know that it exists, thus spreading the word quickly. I think that's exactly why it's successful: agents can easily launch

Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched the Binance alpha section, but also launched OKX contract trading. Is there any plan to further cooperate with mainstream exchanges?

Shaw :

Of course, we have other people on the team who are dedicated to these matters, and I think we may see more token listings and related progress after the New Year holiday, but I can't promise a specific time. I think the launch of Binance and Coinbase is an inevitable trend, but I focus more on content related to AI agents, so I cannot make any guarantees or provide investment advice.

Odaily Planet Daily: What is the difference between ai16z and the Dao organization before the Web3 field?

Shaw :

I think the core problem of the previous Dao organization is: the decentralization attribute of DAO has indeed been realized, but the autonomy part has not been done well. It is not truly "autonomous" and still requires a lot of manpower to communicate and coordinate. This brings about many problems, such as: a small group of people holding all the power. Usually some "giant whales" control all the voting rights; it is difficult for newcomers to enter and participate and contribute to the DAO.

This short-sighted behavior obviously exposed many coordination problems of the DAO. And we believe that this is where our technology can solve it, allowing more people to truly participate in contributing and provide rewards for their contributions. We are working on a mechanism for "continuous retroactive fund allocation". The idea is: if you contribute code to the code base, or assist in a group on Discord, or even help out in any meaningful way, those contributors will be rewarded. This is different from traditional airdrops. It is more like a way to continuously reward contributors. We plan to implement this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working hard to develop related functions for this.

Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z Dao will have its own business model in the future? What is it?

Shaw :

Yes, our business model is based on the accumulation of token value. At the same time, we are also making some investments, mainly investing in projects that we think are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects in the ecosystem using AI agents.

We don't have VC backing like a traditional startup, but we do have a relatively large pool of funds donated by a whale. We are using this capital to invest in projects that we think are important and get a return on it. We are also developing our own token launch platform and are currently working with the teams we have invested in. This is a bit like the concept of Baidu Fund. We are also working more deeply with Baidu Fund and some other projects.

Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, ai16z’s official tweet mentioned that it would integrate its ecological token economic model. Is it through staking, burning, etc. to increase the token value?

Shaw :

I think burning tokens is not a valid strategy to some extent. At least in my experience, burning tokens can sometimes feel like a "dumping" in a way that doesn't really seem to help the long-term value of the token. In fact, if I were to burn the tokens myself, it might upset some people because they would feel it would dilute their incentives. However, I think staking is very important. I think any mechanism that can lock up tokens will be very popular. What we are really concerned about right now is that our token is facing huge liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market value of US$1 billion, but only US$4 million in liquidity, which is obviously not enough.

Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you said before on the X platform that its artificial intelligence agent will be launched soon. Can you tell us what kind of artificial intelligence agent it will be? What are its core competencies?

Shaw :

Yes, degenai is coming, he's the first character we're launching, and it's coming with a wallet. degenai can obtain trading signals through social media. We will track certain KOLs. Do they really share high-quality recommendations? Can we make a profit if we follow the advice of these KOLs? Or are they actually "cutting leeks"? At its core, degenai is building a trust scoring system to make trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us, but also be copied by users and brought into use in their own communities. For example, users can trade through this agent without having to manually perform complex trading operations on Phantom or DEX Screener.

At the same time, we are currently developing another character that uses the same technology but has slightly different functionality. Although some information has been released to the public, we are in the testing phase and have only opened a very small Alpha chat group. Invitation-based users can share transaction information in this Alpha chat.

Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project, which you have in-depth cooperation with ai16z, you could have published it yourself, but handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will make ELIZA better? In what ways will it help the project in the future?

Shaw :

The AVA team showed me an early version of the project. I thought it was cool and wanted to work together to ensure that the project truly reflected high quality standards. Additionally, they have some great developers on their team. Their vision is to build a platform that not only provides decentralized functionality, but also far exceeds the existing Eliza project in terms of user experience and functionality. They hope to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of Eliza token, not just as a token or AI project, but as a comprehensive platform covering multiple tools, services and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:

• Technical support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code review, optimization and assisting projects to achieve core functions;

• Resource integration: We will use our own ecosystem and resources to collaborate with them on a deeper level, including sharing market channels and industry networks;

• Community promotion: We plan to use our own community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly migrate to new platforms or receive new features;

• Financial support: If necessary, we will evaluate whether to support the long-term development of the project through direct investment or participation in the token economy.

We are very optimistic about their potential and believe that this project meets market demand and user expectations. They have the ability to drive Eliza forward in a freer, more creative way, and the support we provide is to ensure the project gets off to a strong start, consistent with our overall mission, while respecting its independence.

Odaily Planet Daily: Whether it is the Web2 field or the Web3 field, everyone is optimistic about the AI ​​sector in 2025. Do you think the performance of the AI ​​sector in the Web3 field in 2025 will exceed that of GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer?

Shaw :

I think it's possible. Ultimately, it depends on how the global economy performs, and if mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Furthermore, I firmly believe that AI will completely change the way the Internet works, and AI agents are just getting started. For example, taking the X platform as an example, most of the information I see now seems to be AI-related content, and this change is really crazy.

Odaily Planet Daily: Finally, for users who are new to the field of Web3 AI, do you have any novice advice for them?

Shaw :

Do your own research. I see a lot of people losing money because they didn't do any reading or understanding. They just follow the trend blindly and wait until they lose money before they start complaining. For activities like PVP, because trends change very quickly, a few minutes may determine whether you make 1x, 10x, or lose all your money. This rapidly changing environment will lead to a phenomenon of blindly following the trend. But those who really do a lot of research, go and look at all the projects and figure out the differences between this one and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding the answers, you'll be much more likely to choose the right investment.

In addition, I think the way to make money is not just to buy a project, but also to do liquidity mining. Buy top tokens that are performing well and put them into liquidity pools. Although you may not get 10 times the return because you missed the early opportunity, you will get long-term stable returns, which is the key.