Alliance DAO Podcast: Why does AI narrative surpass cryptocurrency?

Edit & Organize: Wu Shuo Blockchain

In this issue of GoodGame, AllianceDAO co-founders Imran and Qiao delve into how the focus of the tech community quickly shifts to AI and robotics, thus obscuring the current innovation cycle of cryptocurrencies. They evaluated the cryptocurrency stagnation narrative surrounding stablecoins and tokenization, while highlighting the competitive environment dominated by exchanges and emoticons-driven token issuances.

Robinhood, a strong competitor, is bridging fintech and tokenized assets. The discussion covers the dynamics of emerging startups, the impact of AI on coding and education, and the prospect of potential extinction of junior positions in the legal, medical and finance, ultimately portraying a future for a micro-start-based company led by AI native, founder-led. This article is edited by Wu Shuo Blockchain.

Original link: https://x.com/goodgamepodxyz/status/1907801545065820269?s=19

AI and robot booms mask the status quo of cryptocurrencies

Imran: Welcome to GoodGame, here is a nonsense insight for cryptocurrency founders. We've experienced ups and downs. I think there are a lot of exciting new releases in the AI ​​and robotics sectors when it comes to attention, and that is masking the dynamics of cryptocurrencies.

Qiao: That's true.

Imran: There will be some innovative periods that will attract a lot of attention and mind. I think we are now in a stage like AI and robots, and cryptocurrencies are going through the reconstruction process. If you are looking for the next startup idea for cryptocurrencies, check out our list of startup requests and get inspiration on align.xyz/ideas.

Qiao: Currently, there is almost only one narrative in the cryptocurrency space, whether it is builders or investors — or even cryptocurrency Twitter.

Imran: Stablecoins and tokenization are these two narratives.

Qiao: But this is the same story. It's just like putting traditional assets on the chain.

Imran: It seems that there is a consensus now. Yes.

We see many institutions launching their own stablecoins. I think Fidelity has just recently announced its stablecoin.

Who else? I mean, there are a bunch of companies trying to do the exact same thing. From an innovative perspective.

There doesn't seem to be anything really new; they're just reinventing the wheel.

I plan to send this emoticon. I tried to get ChatGPT to generate a Ghibli-style emoji package. But essentially, what I want to express is that the competitive environment is actually very small.

Everyone is competing for each other's profits. If you look at Binance, they made two very large indirect statements. The first one is, I don't know if you have seen the incident of Hyperliquid, but the senior executive summary is that there is a token called Jelly on Hyperliquid.

Exchange competition highlights Hyperliquid's challenge

Imran: Hyperliquid's trading volume and liquidity have reached a level that can be manipulated. Someone opened a short position to extract the value of HLP.

OKX and Binance were publicly involved — posting on Twitter about the incident — many interpreted as they hoped Hyperliquid failed because it was seen as a competitive threat to their derivatives business.

Another example: Binance is listing tokens from FourMeme, a PumpFun clone running on the BNB chain. Tokens like Mubarak and Broccoli are listed, sparking criticism of Binance's direction. But the logic is clear—they see platforms like PumpFun as competitors.

Now, Binance is actively competing with Hyperliquid, PumpFun, Jupiter, etc. — This is an on-chain and off-chain war.

Qiao: Everyone is targeting the same vertical fields — trading and stablecoins. In terms of transactions: crypto-native platform and Robinhood. In terms of stablecoins: Circle, Tether and traditional fintech companies.

Robinhood advances toward tokenization strategy

Imran: Robinhood recently held a press conference similar to Apple, highlighting their commitment to "tokenization of everything". With their huge distribution network, they are in a good position in the market.

They also want to tokenize real estate — similar to the tradable OpenSea-style MLS — allowing users to trade exposure to real estate assets.

Qiao: But not physical real estate — they may offer derivatives linked to real estate, which is in line with their strengths.

Imran: That's right — they have a deep understanding of their user base.

Additionally, they launched a cash delivery service — you can request physical cash instead of going to the ATM in person. At first, I wondered who else was using cash, but a lot of people did use it — contractors, barbers, etc. — mainly for privacy reasons.

Qiao: I understand this attraction. Banks will ask questions about privacy violations when you try to withdraw large amounts of cash. This is frustrating. I just don't quite understand why Robinhood wants to get into this field.

Robinhood cash delivery and banking services

Imran: You know, that might be another angle—it could be because the ATM business is still very profitable. If you can catch this…

Qiao: Do ​​they want to become a bank? They want people to save money. Yes, they want people to deposit so they can lend and get spreads, which is actually like banks.

Imran: This could be the underlying reason — basically, “Get your money out of the bank and give it to us.” And then add this cash delivery service. But they also offer other incentives. Recently, they announced a promotion – I’m actually thinking about it. If you transfer your brokerage account to them, they will give you an extra 2% bonus. So I'm really thinking about turning it over. This is not a bad deal.

So, they are pushing forward in a comprehensive way — traditional businesses, banking services, traditional brokerage accounts, and now even compete with crypto exchanges. Their hands reached into three areas.

Qiao: I think Robinhood is the biggest threat to Coinbase.

Robinhood vs. Coinbase: The Battle of Platform Distribution

Imran: I think Robinhood is the biggest threat to crypto startups. Because all the services they offer now — whether it’s tokenized X or Y — are exactly what we want our founders to build. If Robinhood becomes the main distribution point, it basically cuts off the middleman — in this case, a startup.

So if we look at the future and look at the current competitive environment, it actually feels very small. And when you include Robinhood and other major players, it gets even smaller.

Qiao: What you mean by "small" means that only a few players are competing for the same opportunity?

Imran: Yes. Hyperliquid.

Qiao: Binance, Coinbase...

Qiao: Pump. Now Pump processes about 30% of the startup transaction volume, right? This is quite considerable — quite large.

Imran: Yes, it's very big. I'm not sure about the latest figures, but the 24-hour trading volume is about $294 million. On an annual basis, revenue is approximately US$30 billion. By comparison, Raydium’s AMM volume was $332 million.

However, trading volumes did drop slightly – now close to $200 million. Basically, Pump has surpassed Raydium in terms of trading volume. This is the point I want to express.

Liquidity dispersion between exchange and aggregator

Qiao: What data are you looking at? DeFi Llama?

Imran: Yes. Raydium's trading volume has remained largely stable, mainly due to the tokens issued previously.

Qiao: Main.

Imran: Yes, but that may change. Pump is gaining attention. Jupiter launched Meteora (an AMM), and Moonshot. They are all part of the same founder network. Jupiter serves as an aggregator.

This market is getting crowded and everyone is chasing the same marginal users.

The real challenge now is to expand the market – how do we bring new users into cryptocurrencies? This is the next frontier. Until then, this is a game waiting for the next wave of meaningful innovations.

An interesting experiment was Noise on MegaETH. They use Kaido as a trend oracle — a bit like fantasy sports, but for trend trading. This is part of the theory of "financialized attention" that we have discussed over the years.

Qiao: Yes, this is not new, it's just a repackaging of the same idea. There is nothing transformative yet.

Imran: It's almost the same.

Circle's strategic dilemma: Reliance on Coinbase, Global Competition and

On-chain Transformation

Qiao: Circle's IPO valuation is between $3 billion and $5 billion — slightly lower than I expected, but maybe it's just my bias.

Imran: Reasonable. It is notable in the application that Circle pays 50% of its reserve revenues — from Treasury bonds and other earning assets — to Coinbase.

Last year, Circle's revenue was about $1.8 billion, of which $800 million was paid to Coinbase. This is huge.

This shows a clear power dynamic: Coinbase has user relationships and is the main distribution channel for USDC. Just like Pump owns its end users and uses it for AMM.

Qiao: That's true. If Treasury yields fall, it poses an existential risk for Circle. Maybe that's part of the reason they are pushing for an IPO right now.

It is also worth noting that — Coinbase returns most of USDC earnings (approximately 4%) to users. Therefore, Circle pays Coinbase for distribution, which Coinbase uses as a user acquisition tool, ultimately making profits through businesses such as higher profitable transactions.

Imran: Circle seems to be fighting a defeated war. While they currently have a regulatory moat, traditional financial competitors are emerging.

Qiao: USDC dominates the United States, but globally, USDT remains the king.

Imran: Yes, a founder from Colombia told me that USDC is basically irrelevant in Latin America. Despite offering a better product, it hasn't received attention.

Qiao: That is the network effect of currency. USDT has been around for ten years and everyone trusts this brand — especially in Tron, which holds a huge share.

Imran: So what is the ultimate goal of Circle? They are between regulators and Coinbase, and although USDC has been adopted in DeFi and some founders, is that enough?

Qiao: From the outside, Circle seems to be a tough business. I'm not sure what their next step is.

Imran: They seem to be leaning more towards on-chain infrastructure.

Qiao: The best thing they built is the CCTP — a cross-chain USDC bridge. It's fast, with less than a minute checkout time, and is basically free. Since it is centralized, they simply move the database entries internally.

Honestly, I trust CCTP more than some decentralized bridges.

Imran: I'm using Debridge and Wormhole too - they're both pretty good. But Circle's solution is probably the best in terms of speed and reliability.

There are two significant mergers and acquisitions – Kraken acquires NinjaTrader, a major traditional derivatives platform, and there are rumors that Coinbase has made an offer for Deribit.

In my opinion, this reflects a broader trend: Incumbent companies are expanding beyond pure crypto trading, which is no longer enough to meet growth expectations.

Innovation seems to be stagnant, so the exchange doubles its bet on neighboring areas. Interestingly, some are turning to traditional finance, while others — like Robinhood — are returning to encryption with a refocus.

Qiao: Yes, I feel the same way. This line obviously began to blur.

Market sentiment check: Saylor, GameStop and liquidity cycle

Imran: A quick sentiment check — Michael Saylor just raised $2 billion again, and GameStop followed closely behind with a $1.6 billion offering.

Qiao: Saylor's move is hardly news anymore. But, I looked at his risk — his liquidation risk is small unless the price of Bitcoin fell below $20,000 in a few months.

Imran: Yes, he has about 3% of the total BTC supply. He is radical, but also safe.

Qiao: So where are we in now? A lot of things may depend on what Trump said today — and policies may change quickly.

As for stocks, I think only a few US stocks have reasonable valuations. Google is one of them — it is recovering in AI and its valuation remains reasonable. I am optimistic about Tesla, too.

I bought my Cybertruck late last year and in just a few months, the FSD has almost become handless driving. This made me decide to double the bet. Musk also plans to launch the Optimus humanoid robot from 2026 to 2027.

For me, Tesla is the most liquid venture capital in AI, autonomous driving and robotics.

Imran: Agree. Robinhood is also fun if you want a wider fintech and tokenization exposure. I may now prefer it to Coinbase, although this may change based on the acquisition.

AI competition intensifies: participation from Google, Tesla and China

Imran: I've seen videos of humanoid robots in public places in China -although not universal, they are still impressive.

Qiao: Yes, it could be a robot for a specific task. But agree — China is obviously already involved.

Imran: If investors want to get exposure to China's innovation, there are more options now.

Qiao: And the price of Chinese technology stocks is much lower than that of US stocks. I hold some — Tencent and Pinduoduo (PDD) are my first choice. Tencent is carrying out serious AI work on data scale. Leaded by the founder, PDD is growing rapidly and still feels like a startup.

Imran: It makes sense. Then, the competition for technology between China and the United States is unfolding in real time.

Qiao: In the field of AI models - have you tried Mistral? We use it inside Alliance. For in-depth research tasks, it is clearly ahead of ChatGPT.

Perplexity is also good at research – it quickly became one of my common tools.

AI Assistant Showdown: Gemini, Mistral and Perplexity

Imran: Someone compared Mistral to Google's Gemini on Twitter the other day. They said it would take five minutes to do deep work with Mistral, and it would take only two and a half minutes to use Gemini. So I started using Gemini more.

Qiao: Gemini is really good. Its performance was unexpectedly robust.

Imran: Yes, I started switching. Every few weeks, I feel like I have to change the workflow based on the latest tools.

Qiao: So are me.

Imran: There is no moat yet. So I've used Gemini more recently. Last night, I tried their new feature — real-time conversation. This is part of the latest update.

You can actually brainstorm with AI in real time. For example, I want to have a birthday party – it helps me conceive, find places, estimate prices, and I even ask it to call me.

Qiao: Did it do it?

Imran: Not yet. But it got me to a point and all I had to do was make that phone call myself. It automates everything to that point. Super useful.

Qiao: Can ChatGPT also do it? Or isn't it OK?

Imran: From what I understand, Gemini feels faster and more interactive. Have you tried Sesame AI? This is the most advanced voice model I've ever seen—it feels like talking to a real person.

Qiao: Who is behind Sesame?

Imran: Not sure — no big company has ever claimed it. But I tried both of their models and they were impressed. I asked my wife to try it and she was really creepy. She said it felt like talking to a real person. It even simulates breathing — too good.

Qiao: The Turing test passed. This is crazy.

Imran: Yes, very convincing.

Qiao: What you mentioned about Google is the only U.S. stock I currently hold

• Google. Its forward-looking PE is about 17 - not cheap, but it is still reasonable compared to other "Big Seven".

Google has returned to the forefront for the first time in more than a decade. They lost to Facebook on social media and couldn't catch up with Apple in the mobile field. But in terms of AI? This is Google's home court. This is deep software technology, and Google is doing well in this regard. I wouldn't be surprised if Google has the best AI model by the end of this year.

Imran: Google’s co-founder Sergey Brin is said to have returned to Google and is working overtime to make sure they win on AI — at least that’s what I saw on Twitter.

The reason I like Google is that when I do in-depth research, it pulls information from sources like YouTube and podcasts — real-time content. This gives it a unique advantage. Sometimes I think, “This research is actually better on Google than on ChatGPT or Mistral.”

Qiao: This is a good point. I still use a combination of all the top AIs — ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude, Gemini, DeepSeek and more. I just switched based on the context.

And while I can't always say why clearly, I instinctively know which tool to use in each case. It's like I built my own psychological neural network for choosing the right AI assistant.

By the way, OpenAI just raised another round of funds — $300 million, with a valuation of $30 billion.

Imran: That's right, it's huge. Obviously high-profile.

Qiao: AI competition is very fierce — both at the basic model level and at the application level. All the big players — the "Big Seven" — are investing in AI in depth, except for Apple.

Apple may be investing heavily, but they have not released any products yet. Meanwhile, Amazon has just released its own AI assistant product for their browser.

Imran: That's right. They officially entered this field, competing with ChatGPT, Anthropic and others.

Qiao: I also saw a recent interview with Jeff Bezos — who obviously went all out with AI.

Imran: Yes, he didn't make it clear that he had returned to Amazon, but when asked about Amazon's biggest focus, he immediately replied: "AI."

Qiao: This says it all.

Imran: I switch every few weeks based on the best tool. Recently, I tried Gemini’s new live conversation feature – which helped me plan a birthday party from location to pricing. This is very interactive.

Qiao: Can ChatGPT do the same?

Imran: Probably OK, but Gemini feels faster and more flexible. Have you tried Sesame? It's a voice model that feels very human-even simulates breathing.

Qiao: This is crazy.

Imran: It's very impressive. In terms of AI, Google has returned to gaming. Their forward-looking PE is reasonable and finally plays a role in cutting-edge competition.

Qiao: Agree. They lost in social and mobile areas, but AI is their home court – deep software. I wouldn't be surprised if Google leads the AI ​​field by the end of the year.

Imran: Sergey Brin is said to have returned to Google and is pushing forward with all his strength. In addition, Google's advantages in extracting real-time data (such as YouTube, podcasts, etc.) give it an advantage in research application scenarios.

Qiao: Yes, I rotate tools on tasks — ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, Claude, DeepSeek, etc. This has become instinctive.

In addition, OpenAI just raised $300 million with a valuation of $30 billion. Except for Apple, all major players are deeply entering AI. Amazon recently launched a browser-based assistant, and even Bezos is clearly back in the process.

Imran: With Sergey and Bezos back, it feels like this is the most competitive and exciting tech competition we haven't seen in years.

Will AI make encoding obsolete? The confrontation between productivity

and expertise

Qiao: Replit's CEO recently said, "I no longer think you should learn coding." This has caused a lot of controversy. But I think what he wants to express is that you no longer need to learn coding—it's no longer a barrier.

Inside Alliance, I asked the founders of the technology to see how AI tools like ChatGPT, Cursor, and Windsurf are effective in increasing productivity. Most people report a 2 to 4x increase — huge gains.

Additionally, more and more non-tech founders are now using Cursor to quickly develop their front-ends. Before that, they had to explain their vision to technical partners, and many things lost their meaning in translation. Now they can directly prototype their ideas and leave them to technicians for polishing. It’s a huge shift – it allows visionary people to go straight from ideas to products.

Imran: So are me. I'm not a technician, but I recently built a Telegram bot with Mistral and deployed it on AWS. This opened my eyes. If I could do this, imagine what builders today could do.

Qiao: That's true. At this rate, you don't need a large team or huge amount of money. A few people and AI tools may be enough to build a unicorn.

Imran: I talked to a founder from Proof — they are building fast development tools for crypto projects. It makes sense that their target users are the founders of building MVPs. These tools greatly shorten the feedback cycle, making testing ideas and fast iteration easier. This could significantly accelerate the pace of innovation.

Qiao: Another big opportunity is micro-apps for consumers. With tools like Cursor, anyone can build a highly personalized application. One of our founders spent two hours building a language learning app for himself — and it worked better than Duolingo because it was built entirely to his needs.

Imran: This is a good example. Indie developers like @levelsio are doing the same — he posted a post about rebuilding Skype features and now earning $10,000 a month.

This shows that you can solve a niche problem and be profitable immediately — especially when you have a global user base.

Qiao: That's true. These tiny opportunities used to be overlooked. But as AI tools lower the barriers, even non-technical people can build applications that are truly profitable — $10,000,000,000 per month — without large teams or funds. This is the next wave.

For liquidity tokenized micro startups

Imran: I think we are entering the "micro unicorn" season - we are going to see hundreds, if not thousands of small-scale startups appear. These companies will solve major problems for small user groups. But they may remain small. They will never become a billion dollar company. Eventually, there may be some integration, but now that is the form of the future.

Qiao: And the problem is, these small startups will never IPO. So what if they — or their investors — want liquidity?

Imran: That's exactly why they should be tokenized. This is a perfect use case. Tokenization could become a liquidity engine for micro startups.

Actually, I see another trend. I want to hear what you think. There was a guy — I forgot his name — but he launched an app called Cal AI. I downloaded it. Basically, you take photos of your food and it automatically calculates calories, fat content and more. It will then give you a weekly health plan based on your calorie intake.

He is only 18 years old. Rejected by all universities. He shared his story online — posted his Oura Ring data and more.

Qiao: Yes, I saw it.

Next Generation Builders Choose to Skip School

Imran: A teenager recently launched a product and is said to have reached $10 million in annual recurring revenue — despite being rejected by all universities. Nowadays, more and more young people choose to skip universities and directly invest in construction.

Qiao: For this generation, traditional education began to feel dispensable.

Imran: That's true. Not that education is not important — but building what people want may be more important.

I saw the Twitter mentioned by Nik perfectly summarizing this:

“Working at Google or going to Harvard does not mean status — because these decisions come from small, biased committees.”

"The real status comes from something that cannot be forged: building products that are used by millions of people, getting companies to market, or saving lives."

"You don't need that job at Google - the real position is when Google has to acquire your company."

Qiao: Completely agree. We are seeing younger and younger founders. In our next batch, there are kids who dropped out of school in their sophomore year of Princeton — they are very smart.

Imran: They may not know what they are building yet, but this vitality is undeniable. I think this trend will continue.

Qiao: And education itself is also developing. We are working with a team to build AI tools that help kids learn to read earlier. There is also a new startup school called Alpha School. Have you heard of it?

Use AI counselors to subvert traditional education

Qiao: Have you heard of Alpha schools in Texas? The kids there learn through AI counselors and spend only two hours a day academically — but they outperformed students in traditional schools.

Imran: I saw it. Their students rank in the top 2% of the national tests.

Qiao: This doesn't surprise me. AI is very effective as a counselor. I believe that within 5 to 10 years, AI will completely disrupt K-12 education.

Children no longer need to go through eight hours of lectures, they can learn the same content in less time — AI counselors will personalize their teaching according to their pace and interests. This will be much more efficient than the average classroom teacher.

Imran: I can’t stand the current school model — eight hours of inefficiency in learning. Students are passive and are not productive most of the time.

Qiao: That's right. And Alpha School goes a step further: 8-year-olds start up startups, 10-year-olds give TED-style speeches, and 12-year-olds study Harvard Business School cases. It's real applied learning — not just tedious work.

Imran: This is the most exciting case of educational innovation I have ever seen. The whole system needs to change, and it feels like the future.

The end of AI health assistant with junior doctors

Qiao: I saw Apple exploring an AI doctor product—and that makes sense. Apple Watch collects heart, sleep and other health data, and they are in a good position.

In addition to Apple, there are huge opportunities for startups to build AI health assistants. One of our team members has used ChatGPT regularly in terms of health advice — about heart, diet, sleep, and more.

Imagine an AI extracting data from your wearables, medications, and test results and giving tailored health advice. This is very powerful.

A recent personal example: I took my son to an allergic doctor. The doctor was in a hurry and didn't answer all my questions. So I asked ChatGPT at home — it gave the same diagnosis and better advice. It's like having a second more patient doctor.

Imran: That's true. This has happened. My uncle in India is sick and no one in the family can understand medical documents. I uploaded them to ChatGPT, got a clear summary and action plan, and then told them. This clarity is something that the actual doctor never provides.

Qiao: That's why I think some types of doctors — especially junior doctors — may end up being replaced by AI.

Imran: So is telemedicine. This is a step in that direction, but AI will go further – providing scalable personalized care. At the very least, AI can provide a second opinion and reduce misdiagnosis.

Qiao: I want to know which startups are leading this field now. There may be many, but there are no outstanding leaders. Maybe Apple will implement it first.

Legal, analyst and junior roles are under threat

Imran: I mean, lawyers in general — especially junior lawyers — most of their work can already be handled by AI.

Qiao: That's right, it's the most vulnerable that junior characters are.

Imran: Yes, I can definitely see that this industry will be hit hard. Even if we — junior analysts or researchers — we no longer really need them. So, I think it will be more difficult for those who want to build a career.

Qiao: They have to find new ways to build reputation.

Imran: One way might be by showing your thoughts on Twitter. I've seen someone find a job this way - just keep tweeting and share sharp insights.

I would read a discussion and think, "This person should definitely work somewhere," and sure enough, they announced they were hired a few weeks later.

Qiao: It will be interesting to see how this evolves. The broader trend I'm seeing is that AI is replacing many junior positions in multiple industries — not just doctors and lawyers, but in our field.

Remember when we talked about hiring venture capital analysts? Now we don't need them anymore. A lot of the work they will do — market research, startup analysis — we can do it by just talking to AI.

Generalists and experts in the AI ​​era

Qiao: Interestingly, I think Kyle posted a content on Twitter like "AI improves generalists more than experts." I understand his point, but the other way around: In any particular industry, the most experienced person—the real domain experts—is still not able to be replaced by AI. They have unique insights, edge cases and experience-based intuitions that AI doesn’t have. And these people are experts.

Imran: Yes, it's a diversified shift. Generalists can focus deeply on one area, while experts can expand across fields. So I think AI empowers both sides. It's not one side against the other.

To me, it comes down to agency. If you are willing to learn, adapt, and develop in depth or extensively according to the situation, you will succeed. If you don’t have that motivation, you’ll fall behind — especially if others are more actively leveraging AI.

Qiao: Yes. Naval recommended a book about parenting, which touched this point of view - I couldn't remember the title for a moment.

Imran: Yes, I remember. He shared two key points. I do have that book now—it's really fun.

Teach kids initiative through AI and books

Qiao: The core idea in the book recommended by Naval is to teach children initiative as soon as possible. Let them make their own decisions—even if they are not ideal in the short term—this way they can learn from experience and understand the reasons behind the choice. This is much more effective than just saying "doing this, that won't work."

Imran: Naval shares an example: He lets the kids eat whatever they want — as long as they read and do math for an hour a day. Eventually, one of his daughters stopped eating ice cream by themselves and realized it wasn't healthy. This impressed me.

I adopted some of this model. I bought my kids Kindles and told them, “If you read, you can watch a little TV.” We don’t usually allow them to spend too much time on the screen, but now they read almost two hours a day without urging. They like this.

Qiao: That's good. My approach is similar – two hours a day for math and language, and then they are free to explore what they are interested in.

Imran: So are me. My daughter loves reading and uses Khan Academy independently. My son is a builder — we recently got a robot kit powered by Nvidia’s new GPUs and we are assembling them together. This is an opportunity to teach and learn side by side.

Qiao: This is exactly the learning method I want to encourage.

Imran: That's right, this is my thinking about the future — practical, curiosity-driven learning.