Telegram founder's "DNA Airdrop", only 40 years old, has made a will of 100 sons

Author: Guillaume Grallet, Le Monde

Compiled by:angelilu, Foresight News

Editor 's note: After being prosecuted by France in August 2024 and banned from leaving the country, Pavel Durov was allowed to leave France for 14 days yesterday from July 10, but only to Dubai (the family is in Dubai) and must continue to be subject to judicial oversight.

French Opinion magazine interviewed Pavel Durov, co-founder and CEO of the crypto-communication app Telegram, the longest interview he has ever received so far, in which he talked about his feelings about being interrogated in France, revealing information about several state power agencies and intelligence agencies, including the FBI and the French General Administration for Foreign Security (DGSE), expressing his struggle for freedom of speech and concerns about the future of democracy, his firm refusal to sell Telegram, and his deep feelings for France. He also shared his views on Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and ChatGPT creator Ultraman.

Pavel Durov also revealed that he, who was only 40 years old, had made a will to distribute his wealth to six biological children and more than 100 children born from donating sperm, and required his children not to inherit his property within 30 years. His "maintenance tips" that look so young are to stay away from everything that may be addicted, not drinking alcohol, coffee or tea, not smoking, staying away from sugar, and doing 300 push-ups every morning, followed by 300 squats.

Pavel Durov said Telegram was a source of spending, not revenue, and he had much less current assets, and not from Telegram, from his 2013 investment in Bitcoin. His view on AI is that current big models are not smart, and his brother Nikola is developing truly "smart" AI.

The following is the full text of the interview:

You are charged with 17 very serious charges involving child pornography, drug trafficking, money laundering... Do you understand what you are accused of?

Pavel Durov: This is totally ridiculous. Just because criminals use our communications services across numerous platforms, it doesn’t make the person who operates it a criminal… there has never been any evidence that I have committed any crime in even a second. But it seems that I have been punished at this stage by prohibiting departure. It seems that the French judge understood that there was not enough substantive content to make a real conviction in the future, and if he wanted to punish me today. They said Telegram refused to cooperate. This is wrong. It is the French police that did not follow international procedures correctly. The Telegram team even had to show them how to do it correctly.

Have you been summoned by the judicial system?

I met with the judge in charge of my case twice, in December 2024 and February 2025. There is another appointment in July. But it's crazy...I understand that things take time. But why do I have to stay in France and wait? My lawyers have submitted all the documents they requested to the judicial system.

The first few days were difficult...

I am constantly being tried in judicial customs facilities. Within four days, I answered all the questions. At night, a bright light illuminated the 7 square meter room where I slept on a concrete bed. The room was clean but there were no pillows. The mattress [he gestures with his thumb and index finger thickness] is no thicker than a yoga mat.

You seem to feel very affected by being banned from leaving French territory...

Yes, very affected. My parents have very serious health problems and statistically they only have a few years to live. I lost the precious time I spent with them. Also, I have a newborn son who I missed the first few months of his life. He still has no passport because I was unable to attend his birth in Dubai. I also have a teenage son at a boarding school in Dubai who just broke his arm and had no parents to support him.

Will this situation affect your activities?

Yes, that's true. For example, I should have spoken at the Oslo Freedom Forum last May. The forum chaired by Yulia Navalnaya "Foresight News Note: Yulia Navalnaya is the wife of the late Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny". I want to meet her, as well as activists from other parts of the world, to understand how they use Telegram and what we can improve. The judge forbids me from going there. We had to conduct live interviews via video conferencing. I have fought for freedom of speech for nearly twenty years. Navalny sometimes expresses my views and sometimes makes statements that I don’t agree with – but he has the basic right to express freely, which I always insist on. Facing the Russian authorities, I have only two choices: either succumb to their demands or sell my shares and leave the country.

A frequently mentioned question: Are you close to Vladimir Putin?

I only met with senior Russian officials once in 2013. At that time I was the head of VKontakte ("Russian Facebook") and I refused to provide information about opponents of the regime. The meeting will not exceed 15 minutes. The senior Russian official insisted that in his opinion, social networks should be a government tool. Then I have two choices: either I do exactly what the Russian authorities expect, or I sell the company shares and leave the country. The Russian regime gives me free choice. So I told them, "I understand, thank you very much." Two months later, I sold my stake in VKontakte. I haven't set foot in Moscow for more than ten years.

Have you ever worked with the Russian authorities in any way?

No. We process reports from Russia and other countries to remove clearly illegal content (such as publicly promoting the sale of illegal drugs), but we have never met requests related to political censorship or political persecution. During the VKontakte era, I publicly refused to work on this. I was even summoned by Russian judicial judiciary. In 2014, I left everything.

According to media Important Stories, you continue to travel to Russia. Someone said: If you are still alive, it is because you have an agreement with the Kremlin...

I visited my family in St. Petersburg between 2015 and 2017 – it was never a secret, I even posted it on social networks. I have also been there to support my dad during the COVID-19 pandemic. But I haven't been back in four years, since the first articles mentioned the possible war with Ukraine appeared in 2021.

Before coming to France, you were in Azerbaijan...

Before coming to Paris last August, I went to Azerbaijan after passing through Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. I stopped in Baku and President Putin arrived there two days after I left the mountainous area. I saw neither him nor anyone in his entourage. During this trip, I only met the President of Azerbaijan and we discussed the role of Telegram in the country. You know, within three years, I met with 16 heads of state. I don't always agree with them.

Does this mean you agree with the policy of Ilham Aliyev, who is considered authoritarian?

You know, within three years, I met with 16 heads of state. I don't always agree with them. Just like Paul Kagame of Rwanda. You can criticize his approach, but what he did in Rwanda is impressive. I realized this when I went to the village. I see that despite the poverty and history of this country, people still smile and want to survive.

In your opinion, how did the Ukrainian war affect the perception of Telegram?

In Russia, they say Telegram supports Ukraine. In Ukraine, they say Telegram spreads Russian propaganda. In fact, we have neutral responsibilities. Telegram is a platform where different ideas can collide there, and everyone can get access to different opinions and freely decide what they want to believe. I will never comment on geopolitical conflicts, as this will be immediately interpreted as supporting one of the two camps, and neutral platforms cannot do so if they want to remain impartial and apply the same rules to everyone. But I will always fight for fair access to free and independent information. Once you legalize censorship, it's hard to look back.

You have expressed concerns about the European Digital Services Act, which aims to combat false information, hateful or illegal content on online platforms...

These laws are dangerous because they may be used against the people who created them. Today, they target so-called conspiracy theorists. Tomorrow, they may target their own authors. These precedents weaken democracy in the long run. Once you legalize censorship, it's hard to look back.

You are sometimes likened to Elon Musk...

Yes, but we are very different. Elon manages several companies at the same time, and I only manage one. Elon may be very emotional and I try to think carefully before I act. But this may also be the source of his power. One’s strengths tend to be weaknesses in another situation.

What do you think are the pros and cons of Mark Zuckerberg (founder of Facebook)?

Mark is adaptable and able to follow trends quickly, but he seems to lack the basic values ​​that he will be loyal to regardless of the political climate or how fashion in the tech industry changes. Similarly, Mark's strengths and weaknesses may have the same roots. Remove weaknesses, and you also remove strengths.

So what about Ultraman, the creator of ChatGPT 's parent company OpenAI?

Sam has excellent social skills, which allows him to build alliances around ChatGPT. But there are doubts whether his technical expertise is still sufficient after his co-founder, Sutskever, and many other scientists left OpenAI. In an increasingly competitive environment, it will be interesting to track ChatGPT’s development and their ability to stay ahead. I want to point out that I don't treat my children differently.

You often mention your family. Where does it occupy in your life?

It is very important. I recently wrote my will…I decided that my children won’t get my property until thirty years from today. I hope they live like normal people, grow up on their own, learn to believe in themselves, be able to create without relying on bank accounts. I want to point out that I treat my children without a difference: some are naturally pregnant, and some are from my sperm donations. They are all my children and they will all have the same rights! I don't want them to fight each other after I die.

How many children do you have?

I had six children with three different partners. Others from my anonymous donations. I started donating sperm to a clinic 15 years ago to help a friend, which told me that more than 100 babies have been conceived in 12 countries this way.

Why write this will now? This is rare at 40...

My work involves risks – defending freedom will allow you to gain many enemies, including those within a powerful country. I want to protect my children and I want to protect the company Telegram that I founded. I hope Telegram is always true to the values ​​I defend.

You look young...

I followed strict life and exercise, doing 300 push-ups every morning, followed by 300 squats—also continuous. I don't drink alcohol, coffee or tea, I don't smoke, stay away from sugar. In short, stay away from everything that might make you addicted. I like to be in cold water. I sometimes swim in the middle of winter in Finland or Lake Geneva – this can cause confusion (he smiles).

Telegram What happens after you...?

If I disappear, a nonprofit foundation will take over. My goal is to ensure the continuity of the platform: I hope it will continue to exist independently, respect privacy and freedom of speech.

In the past, you were targeted by Pegasus spyware. However, you can not use your phone...

I won't carry my phone with me. I manage Telegram apps and video conferencing work conferences with my iPad. I prefer reading, thinking, and writing rather than staring at my phone. This frees me. My team knows how to contact me and I can stay focused. Attention is our most valuable asset today. Notifications are parasites in our lives.

Is this a kind of digital asceticism?

Totally correct. I prefer protecting my mind. It’s also a kind of respect for the people I interact with: I’m there, with them, really together.

Should people under the age of 15 be prohibited from using social networks?

This kind of initiative seems to me that it is ineffective. Kids can easily use VPNs. This is not feasible. The most important thing is to instill discipline. We must show them that success through hard work brings priceless confidence. If an adult does not set an example by himself, it is meaningless to forbid.

Do you think you are an entrepreneur engaged in politics?

I don't involve politics. I never voted. But I defend my freedom tirelessly.

Is Donald Trump fueling global turmoil?

I'm not a fan of everything he does, but I think it's a mistake, and even very dangerous, to ban Donald Trump from using social networks. This sets a precedent. If we can allow ourselves to treat a former US president like this, then it means everyone is vulnerable.

Is that why you defend freedom of speech?

Totally correct. Today, maybe the bad guys are being censored. But tomorrow, it may be you. Freedom cannot be defended only half.

How do you explain the strong growth of Telegram without ads?

Our starting point is to bet on human wisdom. If we provide consumers with a better experience than their competitors, they will test it and adopt it. In addition, people often use multiple applications: one for work, one for personal life, and the other for learning... In addition, our applications consume very little memory or bandwidth, which makes it very popular in countries such as Afghanistan and Iran. Although Telegram has been banned by the Iranian government since 2018 for refusing to block protesters’ channels.

Even if this part goes through Russian-based infrastructure or data centers?

We don't have any in Russia and have never had infrastructure.

Do you feel that some competitors are copying you?

WhatsApp always imitates our innovations with a five-year lag...but this doesn't bother me, it just verifies the correctness of our choices. I met Mark Zuckerberg. I respect his business leadership, but to be honest, with such a wealth of resources, I think they could have shown more originality. I recently learned that WhatsApp has set up a team to focus on monitoring our movements...

You prefer Signal Communications...

Yes, I met its head Meredith Whitaker in Paris last year. She gave me the impression of being a smart and rational person. Of course, we will debate who uses the best encryption technology. I will continue to think about why all American communication services (Signal, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Google Messages) use the exact same encryption technology, as if using other technologies is prohibited. But fundamentally, Telegram and Signal are on the same side when facing challenges we have to overcome.

Telegram has received several acquisition proposals...

Google tried to acquire Telegram when we were just starting out. In 2017, I met with Sundar Pichai (CEO of Google) in Mountain View, who made a $1 billion acquisition offer. Google was eager to acquire an instant messaging service at the time because they missed WhatsApp, which was eventually acquired by Facebook. They tried to develop their own communications apps, but found it extremely difficult. Creating a successful communications app is like cultivating a tree, which takes time and careful care.

Why did you refuse?

I didn't hesitate for a second. It's not a matter of price, Telegram doesn't sell at all. Because Telegram is not a product, but a project. An idea. Commitment to the independence, confidentiality and freedom made by users. If you sell, you betray the promise. This is impossible, I will never do it.

Are you still the sole shareholder of Telegram?

Yes, I own 100% of the company. There are no external shareholders, so there is no interference. This is the only way to ensure Telegram is completely independent. I learned from VKontakte's history. Once you share control, you lose your freedom.

Looking back, what regrets do you have about the development of Telegram?

Not very there. We have a team of about fifty people, headquartered in Dubai – that’s enough. Small teams can move faster. We also work with over 1,000 service providers in the rest of the world (mainly content auditors), but the number of developers does not need to increase as the number of users increases. We sometimes hire new engineers to choose them from the winners of coding competitions we organize regularly. One we recently hired won our 17 matches in eight years – he was only 22 years old at the time. My brother Nikola is currently working on real AI – AI that can think and understand the world logically.

Did artificial intelligence impress you?

The problem is that today's generative AI like LLM (large language model) is not thinking about it. It doesn't understand, it just reads a lot of text and repeats a consensus version. It looks believable, but it doesn't necessarily mean it. And we humans are fooled because we connect complex language with intelligence. But these models are not smart. They are just complicated. My brother Nikolai Durov, "refers to Pavel Durov's brother Nikolai Durov" is currently working on real artificial intelligence - artificial intelligence that can think and understand the world logically.

Will it replace certain jobs?

We are experiencing unprecedented technological acceleration. For teenagers, adaptation is natural. But for experienced professionals, such as lawyers or doctors, who have high salaries, the transition will be cruel. Although they are excellent, their perceived value in the market may be reduced. Yes, the work will go away. But history shows that other work will come. What is important is the wealth created. It is an improvement to not have to work like a slave and be able to live like a king. As long as we want to create and contribute to society, everyone will have a place.

What about Telegram?

AI enables us to conduct effective audits. Thanks to it, we can delete up to 99% of the problem content. Millions of posts per hour, it is impossible to process manually. Each user can also summarize discussion threads, documents, correct text, translate, and find writing help...

What role does your brother play with you?

Nicholas is a genius, but he has stopped participating in Telegram operations for many years. In recent years, he has focused on basic research, such as designing an infinitely "scalable" blockchain architecture.

Telegram generates 500 million euros in profits, making you a rich man...

Telegram never paid me a dividend, nor did I have a salary—for me, Telegram is a source of spending, not a source of income. I hope this project exists, so I spent almost all the money (over $200 million) I gained from selling the VKontakte stake. We then raised funds for Telegram’s blockchain project, but after being banned by the SEC in 2020, we had to return investor funds. We returned everything. But for this, we have to be in debt of $2 billion. Telegram still bears the debt.

In Paris, you mainly live in Hotel Creon, a palace. Have you become interested in this luxurious life?

I don't own a house, a yacht or a private jet - although I sometimes rent it -I like to stay in beautiful hotels. I think owning items will distract me from my mission: building Telegram. Last October, I realized that I had been wearing the same pairs of shoes for four years in a row (my friends gave me a new pair on my 40th birthday). I only have a formal outfit, but most of the time I wear sportswear – usually Adidas or Nike. The media said my wealth is estimated to be between $15 billion and $20 billion, but this is just a theoretical estimate of the possible value of Telegram. Since I won't sell Telegram, it doesn't matter. I don't have this money in my bank account. I have much less current assets – and they are not from Telegram: they come from my 2013 investment in Bitcoin.

Did the poverty you experienced in childhood help you succeed?

I remember the black jacket I wore as a teenager. I only have one piece and I like it very much. My mother bought it second-hand at a small community store in St. Petersburg. She has two jobs: a German translator and a legal assistant in an American law firm. My father taught for a long time and was not paid. The Russian state went bankrupt in the 1990s. It's tough, but it's very educational. Even if I get sick, I never miss classes. My mother said, "You are not sick, you are going to school."

On May 18, you accused France of influencing the Romanian elections, which was denied by the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs and DGSE...

This was a private conversation at the Battles salon in the Hotel Creon, where I spoke with DGSE head Nikola Reiner and a DGSE agent who had worked in the French Embassy of the United Arab Emirates. Nicholas told me: “We may have problems in Romania,” and asked me if I could delete the Telegram channel run by supporters of a conservative candidate in the Romanian presidential election—those that already exist and may appear in the future. I remember he mentioned that he thought there were risks in these channels to start organizing demonstrations. My answer is very clear: I have not suppressed protesters in Belarus, Russia, Iran or Hong Kong, nor will I start doing this in Romania. I told them that if they thought that because I was trapped in France, I would obey all the requests, they were very wrong. I would rather die than go against my values ​​and betray my users.

Have you been in talks with the French secret service?

Yes, I can always be contacted by French authorities because my office is in the same building as the French Consulate in Dubai. A DGSE agent who works for the French Embassy, ​​accompanied by colleagues, would sometimes come to the office to meet me and ask Telegram to help their counter-terrorism efforts in France – faster than usual legal procedures allow, because the situation is urgent. Last July, he asked me again to help prevent possible attacks during the Olympics. We helped and he thanked him for that. A month later...I was arrested in Paris.

Does Telegram transmit data to authorities?

Telegram employees are unable to view or read user messages, which explains why we have never disclosed a single private message throughout our history. If we receive a court decision that states that an identifier is suspected in a criminal investigation, we analyze the metadata, which allows us to provide an IP address and phone number. That's all.

When was your last conversation with Emmanuel Macron (President of France)?

For a long time, he could send me messages on Telegram about various topics. The last time was the day I had about the Romanian elections and the DGSE statement. He sent me a message (he smiled). I didn't answer him.

What if he proposes to meet you?

I will refuse.

For what reason?

He understood something, but could have done it better. I have great hope for him, and he carries a true vision. But as the end of his second term approaches, I see that he is not making the right choice. I was very disappointed. France is getting weaker and weaker. There is an obsession with communication, and the real power is not manifested, but proved. Reality has become an illusion, just like Pohnkin Village.

President Macron, as an outstanding foreigner, has led to your French naturalization in 2021, just like Snap co-founder Evan Spiegel...

Yes, this makes my position even more subtle. I deeply admire French culture and history. It is an honor to have connections with France. But the direction the president has taken has worried me.

Do you question his long-term vision?

Prosperity comes from competition between ideas, companies, and policies. And today, France does not encourage this. The country is losing competitiveness. This is paradoxical, because the French have unique talents and the ability to do things in a balanced and beautiful way. They can contribute more effectively to the global economy.

They failed to do this?

Yes. Many of the best talents left. We are seeing more and more of them in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, the United States, Milan... This is a real talent outflow.

Why choose Dubai over Paris?

I chose Dubai because I could manage a global company more efficiently there. Unlike the bureaucratic heavy France, Dubai provides a flexible environment. The programs there are automated, powered by artificial intelligence, and almost everything is done online. Even the judiciary is faster. In France, a simple tax investigation could freeze company accounts for years until it suffocates, even if it was clarified later. This heaviness will kill entrepreneurial spirit.

Why not the United States?

One of the main reasons is the potential pressure from the U.S. government, especially on tech companies. Of course, the United States is not the only country that wants to control the platform. But I have been under pressure from the FBI. And, in the United States, there is a legal process that allows the government to force an engineer to install backdoors in software, and he has no right to warn anyone, even his employer. This mechanism is called a "password". If an engineer discloses this to his boss, he may go to jail. Such laws provide the government with the possibility of legally turning your own employees into spies without you knowing. And then there was that incident in San Francisco—the only time I was physically attacked. I will never forget it.

Back to France: No political leader is favored in your eyes?

Politicians often lack courage. They always look for scapegoats to explain why they failed. In France, a country where residents are demanding and complaining easily, this attitude only makes things worse. Instead of saying to citizens like adults, "It depends on us. We have to roll up our sleeves to work," they accuse Trump and his tariffs, the role of tech giants, immigration... According to which party is speaking, the culprit will change its name.

Is it too late to reform France?

If you raise a generation or two with a certain mindset, it will take decades to change it. If we continue to waste time, the risk of the country having to experience very extreme changes will increase. Just like the Soviet Union in the 1990s, we witnessed economic collapse, anarchy, crime, substance abuse. Russia then emerged from the crisis with a vibrant private sector and strong growth. Then, 15 years later, everything worsened again for other reasons. When you delay the necessary reform for too long, you will eventually experience a collapse. The French did not realize that freedom and prosperity were not given by God.

Do you think you are being monitored every day?

When I lived in Russia, I recognized the agents who were following me, even in the subway. Today, I don't even think about this issue anymore. Xavier Niel, the person I once walked with in Paris, once joked to me, "Because intelligence agencies from different countries are following you, you don't need private security. They're everywhere, even on the roof, there, watching you!"

Do you believe in God?

I believe there is more than material things in this life. There is an invisible dimension that we sometimes feel deeply but cannot be named. I was baptized and became a Christian, but I was also very interested in oriental traditions such as Taoism or Buddhism. I practice meditation and yoga for a long time. For me, all religions try to express the same basic truth in their own cultural language. I don't want to limit myself to a single path.

Someone suggested that we live in a simulation carefully planned by aliens...

This is possible. Civilizations have been trying to explain the invisible world with the tools of their times. In the past, it was reincarnation and soul. Today, with technology, we talk about simulation. This is just a contemporary way to express ancient mysteries. A hundred years later, we will use other metaphors. Perhaps a stronger metaphor.

The technology is so powerful that it can also contaminate... However, you are worried about the spread of microplastics...

These ubiquitous particles of water, air, food may eventually affect our civilization in a hidden way, a bit like lead weakening the health of the Romans. History remembers their empires, but does not forget the role of lead

• in pipes, in instruments - that weaken generations. Today, we have observed rapid decline in male sperm concentrations in many areas, partly due to plastic. If we continue to ignore these invisible pollutants, we pose a threat not only to our personal health, but also to our existence. The real danger is unity. The world has become too homogeneous.

Do you speak Italian?

Every time I hear someone speak Italian, it will touch me. It reminds me of my school days in Turin when my father taught as a professor of classical literature, and I was between 4 and 8 years old. A teacher from Calabria was particularly kind to me. Others, they kind of teased: "Little Communists", "Soviet kids"... Northern Italians are sometimes a little arrogant and don't very welcome people from the south or from abroad. But the vast majority of residents are very enthusiastic.

You still believe in democracy, although it has never been threatened as it is now?

As long as different visions can collide and people can choose, democracy is still a good system. Some people think other systems can work—such as enlightened monarchy—but what if successors are incompetent? The real danger is unity. The world has become too homogeneous. The same products are everywhere, the same culture...this standardization makes us vulnerable. We must maintain diversity in systems, ideas, and methods.