Exclusive interview with Zhao Changpeng: Health and family are the most important, and 99% of Memes will eventually fail

Organize & compile: Shenchao TechFlow

Guest: Changpeng Zhao, founder of Binance

Host: Farokh

Podcast source: FAROKH RADIO

Original title: CZ talks Life inside Prison, Trump Presidenty, and state of Crypto!

Broadcast date: May 6, 2025

Summary of key points

In this exclusive interview, Farokh had an in-depth conversation with Binance founder and former CEO Changpeng Zhao, who is well-known as "CZ". They explore CZ's incarceration experience and how he learns from it; his views on Trump's possible second term; and also talk about his overall perception and feelings about the current cryptocurrency industry.

Wonderful view summary

• The highest price of Bitcoin in this cycle may be between $500,000 and $1 million. By the end of the year, the total market capitalization of the cryptocurrency market was approximately $5 trillion.

• Judging from the current trend, the government will only buy Bitcoin more and more, and I hope that ordinary investors can buy Bitcoin before the government.

• I realized that I would never be a Memecoin trader. I'm not a cryptocurrency trader either. I prefer to be a platform builder to build tools for people to use rather than participate in transactions in person .

• Artificial intelligence (AI) is a very important field and I am particularly interested in the field of science. In addition, there are some application areas that are closer to reality, such as RWA (real-world assets), and ETFs are also a very interesting direction.

• An obvious problem in the industry now is the overheating of "Memecoins", and there is too much capital pouring into these Memecoins in the market. In the short term, 99.999% of Memecoins will eventually fail.

• I think the traditional media industry needs to change, otherwise they will be eliminated by the times. Some reports are often not investigating real issues, but with clear personal issues, specifically targeting certain people. This practice not only fails to make a profit, but instead damages the company's reputation.

• I realized that health is the most important thing, followed by family, then work and other things. In prison, you will find that you don’t really miss food. Although you occasionally miss a comfortable bed, what I care about the most is my family.

• In the past, I wasn't sensitive to geopolitics and other issues, but now I realize that these political agendas can directly affect individuals and may even put you in trouble. So, I'm more careful now.

• In the future, decentralized exchanges will be larger than centralized exchanges. We hope to make a lot of investment in these areas.

• Exchanges exist not only for speculators, but while they provide liquidity, it is more important to create a healthy ecological environment for long-term builders.

• I work at least six days a week , sometimes even six and a half days. Even on weekends, I will arrange meetings. Even if I am not working, I always think about work-related things in my mind.

Farokh: Hello everyone, I am Farokh, welcome to Rock Radio. Today 's guest is legendary CZ, the founder of Binance. Thank you very much for taking the time to be interviewed. Do you like life here? I know you have a close relationship with the royal family here. What is it like to live in the desert?

CZ : I live here, so I really like it. Actually, I had the choice to settle almost anywhere in the world, but in the end I chose this place and I thought this country was great. Although Dubai is very prosperous, its traffic is a bit crowded and there are many people, and it is developing very fast. Abu Dhabi, on the other hand, appears quieter and more low-key, but at the same time it is very powerful. I think this is one of the best leadership countries in the world.

Farokh: Today we have a lot of topics to talk about, such as your views on the cryptocurrency industry, Trump’s presidency, Abu Dhabi’s government policies, etc. I originally wanted to talk about encryption legislation, but I thought that part of it was too boring, so I skipped it today. We might talk about your prison experience, comparisons between centralized exchanges and decentralized exchanges, and even talk about Memecoin. If time allows, we can also talk about Binance. Of course, there is also a prediction game section at the end. Your prediction this year is very accurate, so let’s see what will happen next today.

Will not become a Memecoin trader

Farokh: Have you gained anything during the process of participating in BNB Memecoin?

CZ :

I think this is actually very interesting. Last year I was busy with other things in the United States and missed the entire Memecoin craze. When I got back to this field, everyone was talking about Memecoins, but in fact, many projects weren't really practical.

This process is actually quite interesting, but not easy. At first I thought I just needed to design a picture and publish it, but then I found that there were many rules and etiquettes in the community. For example, many people asked me about my pet's name at that time and asked me to post a photo. I never expected that a photo would trigger so many PvPs.

At first I thought it was just an interesting attempt, so I decided to send a preview first and then officially release it 24 hours later, hoping to create some popularity. Unexpectedly, thousands of "Broccoli" emerged during the release, and there was a debate among the communities.

During this process, I felt that the cultural and community atmosphere of Memecoin was very strong. At the same time, I also learned that being a major trader is not easy. They spend every day in group chats, always paying attention to which new coins will be popular. After all this, I realized that I would never be a Memecoin trader. Actually, I am not a cryptocurrency trader myself. I prefer to be a platform builder to build tools for people to use rather than participate in transactions in person. But no matter what, we always focus on the needs of the community and if the community is interested in Memecoin, we will try our best to support it.

At that time, I was also thinking, "Okay, let's look at the BNB chain and its ecosystem." I started to participate more in this field because everyone hoped that I would spend more time on it, after all, my participation can really bring more attention to it. I also hope to help the BNBChain ecosystem. Although I cannot directly participate in the transactions of the decentralized exchange (DEX), I have no restrictions on the decentralized BNB ecosystem, etc. So I will devote my time to where I can participate and promote ecological development as much as possible.

Optimistic about AI and Desci

Farokh: What is the part you are most interested in in the industry?

CZ :

In fact, behind the lively discussions in the industry, there are many things worth paying attention to are happening quietly.

First of all, artificial intelligence ( AI ) is a very important field . The combination of artificial intelligence and blockchain has great potential. Blockchain can directly utilize the capabilities of artificial intelligence, and artificial intelligence can also implement more functions on the blockchain.

Secondly, I am particularly interested in the field of science. I think the impact of science will be very far-reaching in the long run. Financing for scientific research has always been a difficult problem because it usually takes a long time to achieve results. This is obviously not attractive enough for investors who are pursuing short-term returns. But I believe that scientific research, especially in the field of biotechnology, will become crucial in the future.

Through cryptocurrencies and smart contracts, we can raise funds for scientific projects and issue funds in phases based on research progress or time nodes. This model can also inspire millions of small research laboratories around the world to participate. Combining the capabilities of big data and artificial intelligence, I believe we will have significant breakthroughs in drug research and development and understanding of human biology. These progress is not only possible, but is actually being gradually realized.

In addition, there are some application areas that are closer to reality, such as RWA (real world assets). Some large traditional companies are exploring this area, such as BlackRock is trying to trade assets through blockchain technology.

Also, ETF is a very interesting direction. It brings funds from traditional financial institutions into the cryptocurrency market. In the United States, institutional investors account for the majority of the inflows, while the situation is slightly different in other regions. We can already see the impact of this trend, such as the recent rise in Bitcoin prices, which is closely related to the promotion of Bitcoin-based ETFs. So, I think there is still a lot of things that are happening in the industry that are worth looking forward to.

Is the institutionalization of cryptocurrencies posing a threat to its

spirit?

Farokh: Are you worried that cryptocurrency development has become so huge that it is beginning to involve the political sphere? Now even ETFs (exchange-traded funds) appear. Judging from the price trend, the institutionalization of Bitcoin is obviously a positive factor, right? Our assets are rising. Although altcoins are not doing that well, at least the price of Bitcoin is rising. Do you think this institutionalization will pose a threat to the decentralized spirit advocated in the Bitcoin white paper?

CZ :

It does have some impact. Everything has two sides, nothing is completely good or completely bad, so we need to find a balance in it.

As early Bitcoin supporters and decentralized believers, we would like the government to intervene as late as possible, especially when it comes to buying Bitcoin. Many people hope that ordinary investors and ordinary users can own some bitcoins before the government buys on a large scale. Different people will have different opinions on this. Of course, from another perspective, government purchases of Bitcoin will have a positive driving effect on the price, and it can also strengthen people's confidence in Bitcoin. So there are pros and cons of this matter.

Overall, in a decentralized world, we cannot control the behavior of others and control government decisions. The change in the US attitude is a good example. The US government's attitude towards cryptocurrencies was still relatively cold 100 days ago, but now they seem to realize that buying Bitcoin is the right choice. This transformation is good news for the entire industry, but I still hope that ordinary investors can buy before the government.

Farokh: So they still have time, right?

CZ :

Yes, we've been talking about cryptocurrencies and have been working hard to drive it, and they actually have enough time to buy it. If someone doesn't want to buy it, it's their choice.

Farokh: I heard you are still providing advice to some government departments in Pakistan, and Bilabansakhi is also your friend. In addition, Abu Dhabi's sovereign wealth fund has also recently invested in Binance. Judging from the current trend, the government will only buy Bitcoin more and more. This has triggered the domino effect in the United States, and I think it is an important turning point and may even affect decision-making in other countries.

99.99% of Memecoins will eventually fail

Farokh: Over the past cycle, you have had a keen insight into some corruption in the industry, and your intuition about this industry has always been very accurate. So this time, what problems or potential "hidden dangers" do you think exist in the industry? What should we pay special attention to?

CZ :

An obvious problem in the industry now is the overheating of "Memecoins", and there is too much capital pouring into these Memecoins in the market. In the short term, 99.999% of Memecoins will eventually fail. According to statistics, about 13 million tokens are tracked on CoinMarketCap, and you can imagine that most of them will not have a future. This is a high-risk area. Fortunately, most Meme coins investors are well aware of this, because failure cases are so common that they have accepted this fact. But at the same time, this phenomenon has also reduced people's attention to projects that are truly practical.

Developing a compliant crypto project has been very difficult in the past four years, especially during the previous administration. The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) often sues project parties, claiming that their tokens are securities and so on. Fortunately, some of these lawsuits have been dropped recently. So I believe that more developers will rejoin this industry in the future. While the industry was once forced to grow in a less healthy way, I am now more optimistic about the future because it is moving in the right direction.

Farokh: The SEC does feel stressful, say, they might send you to jail. As founders in the industry, we are always worried about tokenization. Even assets like NFTs were once labeled as securities in Google Labs cases, such as projects like CyberKong, and the charges were finally dropped. Now, I feel as a founder, I have more confidence in taking risks than before, because I feel able to take more risks. After all, we need to maintain a spirit of exploration and risk in this industry, especially in cutting-edge areas like artificial intelligence.

CZ :

That's true. Many excellent American entrepreneurs have chosen to leave the United States, which is not good for the U.S. economy and the U.S. leadership in cryptocurrency and artificial intelligence. However, I did not expect an election to bring such a big policy change, which also illustrates the power of democracy from another perspective.

Traditional media needs to change

Farokh: Recently, the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg published some articles criticizing the crypto industry, which sparked widespread discussion. What do you think of these reports?

On the way, I saw you tweeting about the Wall Street Journal and citing Elon Musk’s tweets to discuss fake news. Trump often talks about similar topics. Although these reports are not necessarily completely false, they do have obvious negative tendencies. This is one of the reasons why I founded Rug Radio. Later we merged with Decrypt Media because I always thought Decrypt was one of the highest quality media in the crypto space. Our goal is to demonstrate the potential of encryption and emerging technologies as actively as possible. Of course, this doesn’t mean we ignore negative news, but we don’t need to just report negative content. Like the Wall Street Journal and other mainstream media, it seems that we are always reported to us in a negative light as much as possible. Recently, they even made personal attacks on you, such as claiming that you “betrayed” other founders of the crypto industry in prison for a reduction in sentence. What do you think about this?

CZ :

Indeed, traditional media usually pick a target person and focus their firepower on them. They might choose Elon Musk, Trump, or me and others. Around these goals, they will publish a large number of articles with negative tendencies.

But luckily, this method is no longer as effective now. Although traditional governments claim to support freedom of speech, they actually support certain news organizations through funds, indirectly affecting the content of the report. This strategy may have worked in the past, but now it is counterproductive.

For example, the failure of some political parties in elections shows that people's trust in traditional media is weakening. Now social media gives each of us the opportunity to speak out. Through videos, conferences, etc., we can directly interact with the public and show our true self, rather than letting certain articles define us. While these negative reports are still annoying, we at least have our own platform to express our true views. For example, I may have more social media followers than most politicians, and Elon has far more fans than others. With the rise of social media, real voices have become more and more important.

So we are less worried about it, but it still feels unpleasant.

Farokh: This is really a headache. Because these reports will affect the outside world's view of us. People inside our industry understand the reality, but people outside tend to share articles from Bloomberg and Wall Street Journal rather than from professional crypto-media reports like Decrypt.

CZ :

I've talked to a Bloomberg executive who mentioned that they're even considering canceling the investigation of the news because these reports are often not investigating real issues, but with clear personal issues, specifically targeting certain people. This practice not only fails to make a profit, but instead damages the company's reputation. Bloomberg is essentially a technology company, not a media company. They mainly make money by selling terminal equipment, and media business is actually a burden to them.

I also heard that more than 30% of Bloomberg’s news content is generated by AI, but these are mainly news news, such as market changes, and do not involve investigation and reporting. These news has attracted more attention because it is more objective and data-driven. By contrast, reports with strong subjective tendencies are hurting the company's image. So, I think the media industry needs to change, otherwise they will be eliminated by the times.

Farokh: We are trying to change, too. For example, we use resources like Crypmedia and Rug Radio to capture market sentiment in real time. Just like Polymarket’s performance during the Trump election, there are often significant differences between media coverage and the public’s actual investment behavior .

Tough moments and changes in prison

Farokh: Have your experience in prison profoundly impacted the way you live and work?

CZ :

Of course there is. This kind of experience will always make you rethink your life’s priorities. First, I realized that health is the most important thing, secondly, family, then work and other things.

In prison, you will find that you don’t really miss food. Although you occasionally miss a comfortable bed, what I care about the most is my family. You won't miss money, or work in particular, although it's really a bit sentimental for me to quit as CEO of Binance.

I've always been a builder, so I can't stop. Fortunately, although I am no longer young, I am not too old and still have the energy to do something. Now I focus on helping funds, providing advice to other entrepreneurs, and communicating with them and learning. At the same time, I am also building an education platform. Although still busy, I believe that no matter where you are, you can have a positive impact in different ways.

In addition, this experience made me more cautious. In the past , I wasn't sensitive to geopolitics and other issues, but now I realize that these political agendas can directly affect individuals and may even put you in trouble. So, I'm more careful now.

After I was released from prison, I spent a while getting used to life. In the first few months, I was rarely active on social media and did not attend any events. After a period of adjustment, I slowly returned to normal.

Farokh: Have you made friends in it?

CZ :

I did keep in touch with a few friends. You can meet good people anywhere. Of course, there are also some people who have been over-punished. They may have made some mistakes, but the punishment is too severe. I still keep in touch with some friends in prison. Their situation is very difficult and there are few lawyers who can help them, especially the fees outside are very high. They also have difficulty getting information because there is no internet in prison and communication can only go through a very backward system and cannot even send pictures or links.

Farokh: Then can you know the price of Bitcoin in prison?

CZ :

Not sure at all. However, someone will ask me how I am doing through messages, and ask me about Bitcoin and Binance Coin (BNB). There are several TVs in the prison, but most of them play sitcoms and sports. I don't watch sports or TV. However, several prisoners were interested in cryptocurrencies, so they opened a financial channel specifically. I saw some news in prison, such as the assassination of the president and the 34 criminal charges Trump faces.

One of the allegations was that he brought confidential documents into the bathroom, which I thought was really ridiculous. If my staff do this, I may also give him bonuses, after all, it means he is working hard. Looking back on these things, although it was under a lot of pressure at the time, it really seemed a bit funny now.

Just five days before I was jailed, Elizabeth Warren also announced a "war" against cryptocurrencies in an open letter. If I hadn't been under such a lot of pressure at the time, I might have thought these things were quite funny. But looking back now, it is indeed a bit ridiculous.

Farokh: Can you share some of the difficult times you have experienced in prison, such as the living environment in the prison, the feeling of living in a cell with a murderer, and the psychological changes in the face of fear?

CZ :

Life in prison is really hard. Although I can talk about it with a smile when I recall it now, the feeling at that time was not like this at all. This is not a joke experience, nor is it fun to say. I don't want anyone to go through something like this. Although I always think that I have strong pressure tolerance and a calm personality, it is still very difficult to bear in that environment. I went through body searches, being locked in a cell, and my first experience living in the same cell with a double murderer.

In prison, the staff don't care who you are, to them, you're just another prisoner. I was not treated very well. I was told that I could be monitored in prison and that was probably the only difference. But the other prisoners and guards didn't know who I was, they were just doing their jobs.

My roommate is a man who was sentenced to 30 years for double murder. Because of his good performance, he was transferred to a low-security prison after serving 12 years of prison, which is the lowest level he can go to. Prisoners in prison are usually grouped by race. I shared a cell with a Native American and we got along pretty well. But even so, the moment I first entered prison still made me feel very scared. After entering prison, you must first go through a series of inspections, including taking photos, answering questions, and body searching. Then, I was taken to the prison area. When I first walked into the prison area, I saw a three-story building with two rows of cells standing opposite each other with 240 prisoners inside. Everyone was making noises, and many people were covered with tattoos, looking very fierce. At that moment, I thought to myself, this place is not fun.

The guard told me that my cell was on the fifth floor. I walked over and tried to open the door, but found that the door was locked. Later, a strong man came over and told me that the door needed a guard to open. Everyone was watching me, the new prisoner, and it felt very stressed.

Interestingly, although these prisoners seem fierce, they are actually very polite and friendly. I have not had any conflicts with prisoners or guards in prisoners. However, the most difficult thing is psychological pressure. I've been worried that they might just find a reason to stay for a few more months or even add some more charges. This kind of thing has happened to many prisoners, like the "California Hotel", you can check in, but you can never leave.

If someone explicitly tells me "you only need to stay for four months", I'll feel like "Okay, no problem, I can get through it." But in prison, the uncertainty of many things makes me feel very anxious. Even though I was later sent to Halfway House, in the last month, I was arrested by the Immigration Bureau on the grounds that my visa had expired. Although we had applied for a visa extension, we were rejected and I was forced to stay in the United States.

After a few days in the detention center, my lawyer successfully revoked the detention order, but they did not get me back to the halfway home. I have described these experiences in detail in the book.

About SBF (Sam Bankman-Fried)

Farokh: What do you think of SBF (Sam Bankman-Fried) now? He is still serving his sentence. After your own prison experience, have you gained more understanding or sympathy for him?

CZ :

I don't want to make more comments on whether it is fair or not. I don't want anyone to go through prison life, it's definitely not an easy experience. But I also think that any behavior involving fraud, lying and deception must be stopped. This behavior should not exist. However, the sentence in the United States is indeed relatively long, but there is also a mechanism for commutation of sentences. For example, if you perform well, you can get 10 days of sentence every 30 days, so most people actually serve about two-thirds of the sentence. Even so, I still have sympathy for everyone in prison because that experience was really hard.

In prison, I see a lot of people who have been sentenced to 10 years and their lives have been almost completely fixed. They no longer consider self-transformation. Although most people know what they have done wrong, many people lose the opportunity to correct themselves because of excessive punishment. They just live their lives step by step. Without real corrections, the meaning of imprisonment will be weakened.

And this excessive punishment will waste a lot of taxpayers' money. I don’t know what the most effective correction is, but if you really want people to change, you should let them learn from their mistakes and start over. So, I don't want to give a clear opinion on the length of the sentence or whether it is fair.

As long as we continue to push the industry forward, this is the most important thing. But it is undeniable that the SBF incident has had a very negative impact on the entire crypto industry, leaving our entire field shrouded in a shadow.

Trump and $TRUMP

Farokh: You mentioned Donald Trump several times. Apparently, you witnessed his rise in prison, does that make you feel more optimistic about your sentence? After all, you mentioned concerns about long sentences.

CZ :

Yes. He was charged with 34 counts at the time, and both the judge and the jury were found to be established, which made me feel incredible. Later, he announced his campaign for president, and I thought to myself, this might be a good thing. Then he began to publicly support cryptocurrency, and it can be seen that his support is serious, not just talk.

So I think this is a positive signal for the crypto industry and it also brings some hope to those who may be accused of unfairly. When I was following these news in prison, I felt that our industry was lucky because the then US president was supportive of cryptocurrencies and he was indeed a very smart person.

Farokh: I know a lot of crypto founders will fight for support through lobbying, such as getting exposure opportunities through donations. I remember at a digital summit, I got a White House pass to cover the crypto industry. At that time, I also saw many founders of centralized exchanges appear there. So I wonder, do you have similar contacts?

CZ :

No. As a foreign company and a foreign citizen, we cannot contribute to any political activity. This is stipulated by law, and I am very cautious about it and will never involve anything related to the election.

I am still the major shareholder of Binance. So neither the company nor me personally will participate in any election-related activities. I am very careful to avoid touching these sensitive areas. As for the fact that we did not carry out new activities in the United States after I was released from prison. Binance The U.S. is still operating normally, but there is no other action. There have been some previous news reports that I tried to trade Binance U.S. equity for pardon, which is totally false. I have never discussed Binance's equity issue with anyone, and its equity structure has not changed. So, these reports are purely fiction.

Farokh: Is there any progress on your application for presidential amnesty?

CZ :

We hope to convey the truth through some appropriate news reports, such as contacting professionals like Ryan to ensure that the information is accurate. If I could get an amnesty, I believe this would be a positive signal for the industry as a whole. However, now we can only wait and see.

Farokh: Arthur has successfully received an amnesty. Of course, I hope you can apply successfully. I think this is completely possible, I know you are eligible to apply.

CZ :

Yes, I believe the team will support me, which I am very grateful. After all, everyone is working hard for the development of the industry.

Farokh: Do you know the legal procedures for applying for?

CZ :

Yes, I have already entrusted an attorney to deal with this matter. In fact, it was after Bloomberg published a relevant report that we decided to submit our application formally. At that time, I thought that since the report has been released, it is better to go with the flow. Arthur's application for amnesty was also quickly approved. So we submitted the application about two weeks ago and now we can only wait for the results.

Farokh: How do you evaluate President Trump 's current performance in administration? Do you think the trade war between the United States and China may end?

CZ :

I think President Trump has performed very well, he understands business operations very well. While many people are concerned about policies such as tariffs, I think it is more of a negotiation strategy than a traditional geopolitical game. In business negotiations, a high price is usually offered first, and then gradually concessions are made through negotiations, and finally a balance point that both parties can accept. Although this approach has a great short-term impact on the industry and the economy, it is also refreshing to some extent. President Trump is good at making deals and I believe he will eventually make a deal.

Farokh: So do you think the trade war between the United States and China will end sooner?

CZ :

I think it's possible. The Chinese negotiators are very smart and they are clear about their goals and strategies. However, I think China may not agree with President Trump's negotiation style. Asian culture usually pays great attention to "face", and if you make too tough demands on publicly, it may cause disgust.

This does reflect cultural differences. In the United States, especially under President Trump, he often broadcasts meetings on social media, and this transparency is not common among other political leaders. This style is very special.

However, I believe that both parties have excellent teams of consultants who have a deep understanding of each other’s cultural differences. So I am still very confident about the prospects of the negotiations. At least now the two sides have sat down to talk, rather than completely severing the connection as before. Before, it was more of a contest of soft power, but now the two sides have started to communicate directly, which makes me optimistic about the future.

Farokh: What do you think of TRUMP C oin?

CZ :

I don't know much about it because the statements I hear are very inconsistent. Some say it has a close relationship with Trump, while others say it has nothing to do with it. I haven't studied it in depth myself.

Farokh: However, it does have some connection with Trump, right? For example, they plan to hold a dinner on May 22 to invite the top 20 holders to attend.

CZ :

There is some connection, but I am not the top 25 holders of TRUMP Coin.

Farokh: Is it because media reports that make you choose to stay away from it?

CZ :

I try to avoid being involved with these things. The media attention and possible negative coverage made me feel that it wasn’t wise to be involved. So I decided not to buy TRUMP Coin and didn't want to have any connection with it.

Farokh: Do you think the UAE leadership is drawing on Trump’s approach? How do you evaluate their forward-lookingness?

CZ :

The UAE leadership is very forward-looking. They are not only smart, but also visionary and strategic, and are very flexible in dealing with problems. As early as the beginning of the rise of blockchain technology, they realized that oil resources are not a sustainable solution and must expand into other economic fields. In the diversified development, their investment in blockchain and artificial intelligence is particularly outstanding. These are key technologies for the future, and the UAE leadership has a deep understanding of this.

In addition, the relationship between the UAE and the United States is also very harmonious. Although I don’t know the specific details, I heard that they have carried out a lot of cooperation in areas such as artificial intelligence and blockchain. This international cooperation further reflects the openness and forward-looking nature of the UAE.

I think leadership is very important, and a good leader can make the country develop well. I think no matter which system is used, democracy, monarchy, etc., many people may be bound by the system, but what really matters is the leader. Under any system, even democracy will have bad leaders. And where valuable design and strong leaders are, business can flourish. They will strive to find policies without taxes, reasonable regulatory frameworks, etc. I think we saw this here, and we saw it in the United States.

Comparison of DEX vs. CEX

Farokh: Do you think the competitive landscape between centralized exchanges (CEX) and decentralized exchanges (DEX) has changed?

CZ :

There is indeed a change. Many people regard CEX and DEX as opposing poles, but I don’t think this view is accurate. Both are tools for users to access blockchain. Without blockchain, CEX cannot exist. They are just different ways to help users enter the decentralized world. For the average user, logging in with email and password is obviously much easier than managing complex private keys.

CEX and DEX are actually different paths to the same goal. As industry solutions providers, our mission is to provide users with diverse choices rather than relying solely on a certain model. CEX is not the end point, but a bridge that helps users access blockchain.

We have investments in many fields such as CEX, DEX, perpetual contracts and blockchain development. I think the DEX and perpetual contract market has great potential, and is still in its early stages, and there is still much to explore and improve.

However, the current fully transparent trading model may not be suitable for all situations.比如，你可以看到某个大户挂了3 亿美元的空单，但实际上，真正的机构投资者并不希望自己的交易被公开。因此，大型机构的交易方式往往和普通用户不同。

Yes, that's true.传统上，去中心化交易池通常比我们所称的订单簿要大得多。所以我认为这里有很多成长空间，但 我确实认为未来是去中心化的 。 我多次说过， 在未来，去中心化交易所将会比中心化交易所更大，我们希望在这些领域进行大量投资。

Farokh： 你们已经开始投入了吗？

CZ ：

我们已经投资了多个DEX 和永续合约项目。不过现在我不直接管理这些项目，我们通常只是持有少量股份。

Farokh： 最近，很多人认为如果某个币在中心化交易所上市，那对它来说是一个见顶信号。现在似乎变成了，既然它在中心化交易所上市了，就会失去去中心化交易所的热度，我感觉这种看法已经改变了。

CZ ：

确实有些变化，但这主要是短期投机者的观点。他们把CEX 上市当作最后的机会，但对真正的建设者来说，上市只是一个起点，而不是终点。

交易所的存在不仅是为了投机者，虽然他们提供了流动性，但更重要的是为长期建设者创造一个健康的生态环境。

加密交易所高管群聊事件

Farokh： 你现在还会和其他交易所的高管交流吗？之前《纽约时报》报道过，你和SBF 在一个高管群聊中有过一些争执，后来我们也知道了接下来的事情。你能分享一些关于那个群聊的细节吗？你们现在还会经常交流吗？

CZ ：

我偶尔会和他们聊聊，但并不频繁。首先，我们都很忙；其次，交易所之间也存在一定的竞争关系。那个群聊大概有10 位交易所创始人，确实存在。其实，这个群聊是在Luna 崩盘的时候创建的。当时，他们计划推出Luna 2，其中有一位来自FTX 的人，他之前在Bitfinex 和OKX 工作过，对行业内的情况非常熟悉。

群聊的初衷是为了协调Luna 和Luna 2 的命名。如果每个交易所都用自己的命名方式，可能会让用户感到困惑。比如一个交易所叫Luna 2，另一个交易所却叫Luna，但实际上是同一个Token，这种情况会让用户搞不清楚。所以，我们创建了这个群聊来统一命名，群聊的名字叫“交易所协调”。

这个群聊是由一个人创建的，他邀请了一些人加入。后来，我因为这个群聊被监管机构和司法部问了很多问题。他们怀疑我们是不是在操纵市场，但实际上我们只是同行之间的临时协作。在一些特殊情况下，比如某个交易所遭遇黑客攻击时，我们会在群里协调，追踪资金流向，看看是否能冻结相关地址。这种时候，交易所之间会合作。

不过这个群聊主要是创始人在用，我们并不会亲自追踪区块链交易，那是其他团队的工作。后来，在FTX 崩盘期间，有传闻说他们试图让USDT 脱锚。Paolo （Tether 创始人）在群里发消息要求停止这种行为，我也表示支持，并承诺提供帮助，保护行业不受进一步打击。这条消息虽然引起了很多关注，但实际情况并没有问题。

我最近才第一次见到Paolo，之前我们只是在网络上交流。他是个很棒的人。我们行业内的人彼此都有所了解，比如有一次不良资金通过Binance 流动，我们需要冻结USDT。我联系了Paolo，他迅速响应并安排团队处理。在需要合作的地方，我们总是能协作得很好。

而且在Tether 和我们之间并没有直接竞争。我们通常会在行业会议上见面，这次是我第一次和Paolo 以及其他一些人面对面交流。虽然我们已经在这个行业共事了11 年，但之前的互动大多是在线上的。

是否考虑回归？

Farokh： 这让我想到我和朋友们的经历。我们在加密货币领域工作了一年半，却一直没见过面，直到后来才真正认识。我很欣赏Paolo 在Tether 的工作，他们最近在美国取得了很多成绩。那么，如果有机会让你回归币安，你会重新领导这家公司吗？

CZ ：

我觉得可能性不大。我认为那段经历已经是过去式了。能够“被迫退休”其实是一种幸运。如果是我主动退休，可能会有人觉得“他是不是干不动了”。

Farokh： 听说你是个工作狂？

CZ ：

确实如此。我每周至少工作六天，有时候甚至是六天半。即使是周末，我也会安排会议。即便不在工作，我的脑子里也总是在想和工作相关的事情。这大概就是我的思维方式了。当然，我也尝试一些课外活动，比如最近在学习风筝冲浪——虽然我能跳起来，但落地的技术还不太好。不过按照大多数人的标准，我确实是个工作狂。所以，我不认为自己会重新回到币安担任CEO。过去一年半里，公司在没有我的直接参与下运营得非常好。我依然是公司的股东，因此也会从中获益。而且币安有一个非常强大的团队，我们的目标是继续培养和壮大这个团队，但我并没有打算重新掌舵币安。

Farokh： 这听起来很有趣。那么你会考虑启动或加入其他的加密项目吗？如果会的话，你会选择什么样的项目？

CZ ：

我更倾向于扮演导师、教练或者支持者的角色，就像在场边为新企业家加油的教练。我不打算再去主导一个新项目。虽然我现在依然很努力，但相比当年领导币安时，我的工作节奏已经轻松了许多。要再次承担那种高强度的责任和压力，我觉得自己没有必要再去证明什么了。作为一名创业者，我已经取得了足够的成绩，现在的状态让我很满足。

快问快答

Farokh： 最后我们来玩个小游戏，五个快问快答。我之前提到过，我们创建了一个叫Myriad Markets 的预测市场平台，玩法很有趣，充满了游戏化的设计。 接下来我会问你几个问题，你只需要给出一个数字或者预测。

你认为到年底时，加密货币市场的总市值会是多少？

CZ ：

大约5 万亿美元。

Farokh： 比特币在这个周期的最高价格会是多少？

CZ ：

我猜可能在50 万到100 万美元之间。

Farokh ： 你觉得Trump 会在这个周期超过Doge 吗？

CZ ：

这个不好说，取决于很多因素。

Farokh ： Fart c oin 会涨到10 美元吗？现在它的价格是1.20 美元。

CZ ：

那我觉得不太可能。

Farokh ： 最后一个问题，你会再养一只狗吗？

CZ ：

短期内不会。养狗需要花费很多精力。